Autoplant PID is installed, Now what? ( A Newbie's guide to getting started)

[Shihan Jedi]

Yes thats right. Lets start things off with a how to type list of getting started with Bentley's Autoplant PID XM package.
For this setup, we will be using Autocad 2007, Access for the DB (for now) and the XM version SP2 install file from Bentley.

First, we will use a C drive test project to get things going. Once this is done, launch Autocad and load the PID module.

OK DT.com, lets here whats next?

[Aplant Monkey]

make sure you also run Access before trying to open Data Manager or running a report as it needs to create your profile first

[Aplant Monkey]

I also highly recommend that you use a Custom Directory. this will allow you to make easier and better changes to the PID enviro and specify the changes either for a client or a specific project. I am certain that there are already many posts here at dt.com that will help you on your way to getting started.

Get very familiar with the pid_sup.lsp file as well. this will become your bible for making changes to the standard set up of AP PID.

[Shihan Jedi]

define custom directory for me.
what excatly is that?

im in project creation mode...im at the 'select provider for project' and im selecting SQL Server
but i am unsure as to if I select Multi project mode. I really dont think so, but Id like your input on it.

[dave]

Bud, this page might help you out. http://www.davetyner.com/forum/showthread.php?7626-Wiki-Page-How-To-Create-A-New-SQL-Database-And-User-In-SQL-Server-2005-For-An-AutoPL

[Aplant Monkey]

Jedi...

here is a snip fromo another post regarding Custom Dir's

Here's what you will need to do:
Create a new folder under your Project directory dedicated for your custom modifications. Typically I use APCUSTDIR
Under that directory you are going to do a few items...
1)Create a folder under that directory named P&ID
2)Locate (C:\Program Files\Bentley\Plant XM) and copy from your local machine the settings.dbf and setting.cdx files to the APCUSTDIR folder
3)Locate and copy from your local machine pid.dll, pid.mnr, pid.mnu, pid.mns, pid.cui, pid-sup.lsp to the APCUSTDIR\P&ID folder
4)Under the P&ID directory create a new sub-folder named sym
5)In that sym folder copy your new border file. The border file name must end in "bord" or P&ID will not recognize it as a border/titleblock file
6)Open the pid-sup.lsp file now located under the APCUSTDIR\P&ID directory and search for "bordlist"
This will provide you the list of available borders. You can remove all that don't apply if you want, but be certain to add the name of your border file. The name you indicate in the list does not include the "bord" part of the name of the actual dwg file.
7)Open your defined project's project.ini file. This is located at the project root directory.
Under the [PATH] section add the following parameter values:
Apcustdir=network drive pathing including APCUSTDIR\

Once you complete this you will now have defined a project located custom directory for any p&id customization. Any custom symbols need to get stored under the sym directory in your project custom directory. So best bet, if you make custom symbols in pid1.dwg, pid2.dwg, pid3.dwg you should also copy those files into the SYM directory now under your project. You will also want to copy your local pid.slb file and locate it directly under the APCUSTDIR folder. However, keep in mind when you create custom symbols the slides get generated to the local pid.slb file. You will then need to update the pid.slb file out under your project custom directory.

you may want to look at creating a central Standards folder for all Client specific things rather than having a CustDir for every project. As long as it is the same Client and things are the same no point in having the same thing in multi locations. You would just then need to do everything listed above but have it outside the project structure and then path it in the project.ini to where it resides instead.

[Data Wrangler]

Alternatively, my custom directories are called "custom", have the same structure under them as monkey's (software requirements), and only contain the files that have been customized for that project. No wholesale copying here. We have gone through and customized a lot of the OOB files to meet our companies requirements, and try to stick to them as much as possible. If there are new symbols/objects, for example, I determine if it is a unique symbol to be used for that particular project or can be added to the company project. This determines if something is to be added to the custom directory.

The most common customization files that end up in our custom directories are symbol blocks and a Pid-sup.lsp file.

[Shihan Jedi]

[PATHS]
Standards=Standards\
Reports=Reports\
Specifications=DataSheets\Specifications\
Hookups=Hookups\
P&ID_Assemblies=Standards\P&ID\Assemblies\
PID_DWG=P&ID\Drawings\
PIPE_DWG=Piping\Drawings\
ISO_DWG=Iso\Drawings\
EQP_DWG=Equip\Drawings\
STRUCT_DWG=Struct\Drawings\
Apcustdir=T:\~Autocad\test_project\APCUSTDIR\

like that?

[dave]

I always suggest people not code drive letters, probably safer to use the UNC path. Also, what's with the tilde?

[Aplant Monkey]

you got it !

[Shihan Jedi]

i know no of this UNC path you speak of..

tilde?

[dave]

In your case the drive letter is T:\

a UNC path would look like this: \\servername\share\Autocad\test_project\APCUSTDIR\

the tilde is simply the "~" you have in your drive path. Pretty sure that is a non standard character for folder names?

[Aplant Monkey]

you may also need to add search paths to your Custom Dir. you will need to have it look for the P&ID folder as well as the Sym folder in order to get the CustDir to work. this is against what BE will tell you but in my experience this is how I have had to get it to work.

Edit:

these need to be at the top of your search paths in PID profile

[PartRidge]

I tend to put the project Custom Directory under the Project Standards folder. This would then change the pathing to APCUSTDIR=%Standards%\APCUSTDIR\

When building slides and using the pid block manager be aware that the pid.slb that gets updated is on the local machine, not the one in your custom directory.

You might also want to implement on V8i instead of XM, unless you were just using XM as an example. I'm currently running V8i with Office2007 and AutoCAD2010.

[Data Wrangler]

You guys keep on talking about slides and block manager. I gave up on that stuff a while ago. Anything I add to the interface nowadays I put in symbol manager.

[Shihan Jedi]

ok, so i have the custdir built and now when i start a new pid, the company title block comes in...awesome.

Now I have a few more questions for your Bentley PID gurus...

1. How do i add and / or modify existing pid symbols? can i draw something on the pid and then make it part of the symbol library?

2. after i place some equipment or pipe on a test pid, when i place my crosshairs over it, i see the hyperlink symbol. I want to see the compenet info.how do I fix this? found this...hyperlinkoptions
3. Is it possible to have a new pid put the title block in the paperspace and the have the designer 'model' the PID in the model space? (this is not my question, but one of the project leads question. I see no reason for this, but i promised to ask for him)

4. for a t ypical pid 'D' size, what are the most common settings? (text sizes etc)

5. i was notified today that there is reason to create two different types of pid's here. each with its own type/style of titleblock. Can i get Autoplant PID to see two diff titleblocks and let me choose from them?

6.I have a list of services that will be used on the pid. those services have unique abbreviations and colors. i need to understand where to add the abbreviations to, and how to control what layer/color those lines will get. Also, I have to make sure certain blocks and symbols have the correct colors.

[Aplant Monkey]

Each of these is a fairly lengthy answer so I will tackle them as I can for now.

1. All of the default symbols are loaded in your C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Bentley\Plant V8i\P&ID\sym. AP PID will use these as defaults if you do not specify in your CustDir to use something else. Should you chose to use a different symbol than the standard one you can add this symbol to your sym folder in your CustDir and it will read it first. You can also add new items to your slide library but this is a very detailed explaination that I don't have time for right now. You can however add items to your SymbolsManager simply by creating these items in your drawings and saving them to the Symbols Manager (check your help files for this)

2. Not sure

3. Not sure why you would want to do this?

4. each client will dictate its own standards. there is little point in outlining what different clients demand. I suggest you ask for your clients drafting standards and have a look in there for these items

5.You can indicate as many t-blocks as you want in the pid_sup.lsp file. Just be sure that they are available in your sym folder in your custdir. Allocate their names in the section under Bordlist in the pid_sup file. When placing a pid one of the boxes that will come up will allow you to select the t-block that you want inserted for that drawing. I think it is the one right after it confirms the CustDir location.

6. As for having a list of Services. yes this can be done. In your CustDir under the PID folder you can create a sub folder or copy from C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Bentley\Plant V8i\P&ID either the Imperial or Metric fodlers with the various text files included. you can then customize these to suit your needs in your CustDir. By default I think only the NSIZE.txt file is included but you can add .txt files as you need called PAREA.TXT, PSERV.TXT, PSPEC.TXT...etc you would then populate these with the appropriate names or acronyms.

I have always used the default color settings for equip and lines but I believe these are controlled within the pid_sup.lsp file.

[dave]

What were your steps for getting the title block to come in?

[Aplant Monkey]

Found this in the pid_sup

;; Turn Hyper Link Tooltip off
(if (= (at_Sys_getAcadVer) 15)
(command "._hyperlinkoptions" "_Y" "_N")

you can do a search for it and either comment it out or in as needed

[Shihan Jedi]

http://www.davetyner.com/forum/showthread.php?94-disable-hyperlinks&highlight=hyper this is the page for the hyperlink post...

the border inserting post
http://www.davetyner.com/forum/showthread.php?116-New-Drawings-Custom-Borders&highlight=bord

[Aplant Monkey]

You can select which border to use after the CustDir has been specified. A Box will prompt you and you have the option at that point to select which block to use.

[dave]

Brian, if memory serves, that is just a pointer. Don't you have to specify the border file to use in the pid-sup.lsp file?

Like: ABORD = abord.dwg, DBORD=dbord.dwg, etc?

[Shihan Jedi]

yes Dave, you do. Inside the pid_sup.lsp file, there is a heading for BORDLIST, somewhere around line 1716
and it defines the border sizes you want it to recoginze. The trick is to make all your sizes end with the letters BORD
once that is done, you can have the variety that you want.

[Aplant Monkey]

@ Dave...

Yes this was outline on page one in this post. The pid_sup file needs to reflect which ever borders that you want to include. Do a search in the pid_sup file for BORDLIST this is the section that needs to be completed.

[Aplant Monkey]

another Tip is to ensure that you have your Expert Mode turned OFF. This can be found in the PID pulldown. It provides a much more user friendly system

[Data Wrangler]

Yet another tip is to make sure you document your revisions to your pid-sup.lsp! When you move to the next version of the software, you will have to migrate the changes you've made to the next version, which may have updates done to sections you may not know about. Putting a comment line by each change with the details noted, your initials, the date and an early searchable text string makes it easier to do:


;some fonts only req. 2 "_n" ***Acme Novelties WEC 2/16/06 Added per standardsI also add two lines to the beginning of each project specific pid-sup to be able to tell which one the particular drawing I'm working on is using when opening it:


(princ "\n***Using custom Project info pid_sup.lsp. ***")
(princ "\n")This saves time in troubleshooting sometimes, for example when the custom dir in the drawing hasn't been set up or is pointing to the wrong project.

[Shihan Jedi]

I have this link to some Bentley how to sites. I have found a few of them useful in my attempts to fix or customize the pid-sup.lsp file.

http://communities.bentley.com/products/plant/design___engineering/w/plant_design_and_engineering__wiki/autoplant-p-amp-id.aspx

[Shihan Jedi]

I now need to make the to from arrow symbol a bit longer to fit the dwg number inside it. any advice on the method on that so that its automatic?

[Aplant Monkey]

The OPC arrows are found in the sym folder C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Bentley\Plant V8i\P&ID\sym here. You will need to determine which block you are using and then make changes to it. You can also copy it and place it in your sym folder in the CustDir that you have set up so that you are not making changes to the OOB version (not something I like to do). It is always better to place items in the CustDir as that is what it is designed for.

[Shihan Jedi]

Now, Id like to build on some quick ref type things.Things that should be remembered (kinda an overview).

things like: (im not saying im right, but im guessing)

Always draw your equipment first
Always trim your equipment next
draw pipe in the direction of the flow
a small red x on the end of a line signals an end point
small green x means a connection
a large red x means there is a disconnect (try pid tools > external data > regen all data )

and so forth...please feel free to add any info you feel is important to using this software. Please list any commands that you have found
or used to make things work.

[Aplant Monkey]

just to clarify what you have said regarding the Terminators. The Green ones indicate the origin of the line and the red ones indicate the termination of the line. These are used to determine the To and From relationship for the LDT.

[cadmandu]

jedi..a cople points to add
Catt command is your best friend.
Remember always use the group erase to delete objects.

[Shihan Jedi]

Group erase? see, thats the kind of stuff i needed to know! Thanks CADMAN

[dave]

jedi..a cople points to add
Catt command is your best friend.
Remember always use the group erase to delete objects.

to add to cadmandu's post:

remap catt to just ca, you will work about 1000 times faster.

[cadmandu]

should already be done in V8i ..i think Dave..

[PeterJ]

The AT_ALIAS.LSP lisp routine holds the redefinition of a number of commands and can be found in the C:\Program Files\Bentley\Plant
V8i\Support directory.

Insert A
Pan NN
AutoLine Break AB
PSV Modify PSV
Ddatte AD
Redraw R
Array AR
Rotate Attribute RA
Break First BB
Recall Icon RE
Break BR
Mirror RR
Change Properties C
Rotate RT
CATT CA
Save SA
Change Bubble Type CB
Scale SC
Copy CC
Scale Factor (half) SF
Change CH
Snap (half) SN
Circle CR
List SS
Drag Attribute DA
Stretch ST
Drag Bubble DB
Point T
Distance DD
Hatch TC
Ddedit DE
Toggle Equip Tag TE
Divide DV
Trim TR
Erase E
Toggle Size TS
Endcode EC
Undo U
Pedit ED
Move V
Ellipse EE
Extend XT
Explode EX
Zoom Z
Line F
Zoom All ZA
Pline FF
Zoom Extents ZE
Offset FS
Zoom VMAX ZV
Fillet FT
Zoom Window ZW
Mend MM
Zoom Previous ZZ

[Shihan Jedi]

Im having issues with reducers on the PID. After I insert my reducer, select the direction based on line sizes, and enter it, it appears to be fine. I see one red box and one green box on the reducer. But when I use the CATT command on the reducer, it tells me via pop up box that the reducer has no editible data. It this typical of reducers?

[cadmandu]

Yes jedi.. That is typical of reducers.. if you want to cange the size of them you need to change the run sizes on each side of the reducer. and then catt on the reducer again and it will update the size field according to the run size changed.

[PeterJ]

There is a parameter in pid-sup.lsp that can be set for reducers to have a tag.

[Shihan Jedi]

in Autocad Plant Suite PID, in order to finish your pid, you must validate it. Does the Bentley PID software do these things?
I also need to put more text around certain instrument bubbles. How do you deal with those requirments? Simply add text? Or modify the blocks?

[Aplant Monkey]

there is no need to do anything to "validate" the PID when you are finished. There is however the option to Validate under the PID Tools Pull down with a consistency check. It will go through the lines to ensure that you have linked OPC connectors and valves are correct sizes etc. I don't use it as I find it unnecessary.

As for adding text to the Instr bubbles. There is a lot of text already in place with them and you can access it through the PID Tools Pull down under Annotation tool. you can select the attribute and then place it where you want. You also have the option of making changes to the actual block itself and add attributes to it. you then can make changes to your actual CATT dialogue box so that it is easier for the user to add the values. This is a very advanced step however and needs way more info than what is here.

[Shihan Jedi]

I have a rouge PID in the project. I can see it in vision and in the folder. but when i click on it to edit it, vision says its not there, do i wish to create it?
and in the properties box under location, the path is all wrong.
how do i get this dwg back and make things right in the world?

[cadmandu]

Move it to the correct location. then refresh Vision and see if you can open it then..

[Shihan Jedi]

so based on aplant monkey's advice, I corrected the doc_reg table in the projdata.mdb file and the pid worked just fine.
thanks monkey!

[Aplant Monkey]

first make sure the DWG is located in the correct location. then go to the Doc-reg and make sure the LOCATION of that file indicates what is reflected as the storage point for your PIDs as indicated in your Project.ini for example PID_DWG. put that in the Location column and Vision will then find it OK.

[Aplant Monkey]

a BIG NO NO when working with AutoPlant PID is to NEVER make a 'dumb' copy of the drawing with any AutoPlant application open. If you do this it will recognize the move and alter the Doc_reg to reflect the new path. The simple fix is as indicated above but the better solution is to make sure when making a Windows copy of a PID that ALL AutoPlant applications are closed first. Then NEVER open that copied version with AP. Use only the base ACAD Unnamed Profile to view it or alter it.

[Shihan Jedi]

Autoplant Monkey, I followed your dirctions from the attached document and I do not get the same results.
Matter of fact, I get nothing. This error is all I see when trying to create a dumb dwg from a smart pid.

Removing embedding data...
\; error: Exception occurred: 0xC0000005 (Access Violation)
; warning: unwind skipped on exception
; error: Exception occurred: 0xC0000005 (Access Violation)

[Shihan Jedi]

I am beginning to think the consistancy checks on run terminators is whats is giving me fits on this PID and why it wont export out dumb.
My big problem is that I know how to run the check but I do not know how to fix them.
:(

[Aplant Monkey]

the basic concept behind the terminators is that each line MUST have a Origin (green) terminator and each line MUST have a End (Red) terminator. the ones in the middle on reducers or branch connections really don't mean much. Each Process Line should have its own set of term's